Thanks. Hello everyone. Thank you so much for joining us today on “This needs to be said”, and you all know that I love book interviews and this book interview is going to take a little while for us to unpack. This one is special because it’s talking about your student loan debt with our friend attorney, Christine Kingston. Welcome back, Christine.
I’m doing fantastic Katherine, always good to be with you. Thanks for having me back.
Welcome, welcome, welcome. And if I didn’t say it enough last time. Thank you for finally getting your book done and, and presenting it to all of us to have as a resource and to help us as we financially reset ourselves. Definitely coming off a pandemic deciding what’s going to be the next, permanent move into something else. Shakes us up! Thank you for writing- How to tame the student loan dragon. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Absolutely! And Katherine, you know what I’m going to, I’m going to reciprocate the love and I am going to tell you that you have been so inspiring to me on this journey to over the years. I know we’ve been talking about it for a long time and you have been so inspiring to me to get past the gauntlet, the technical difficulties and all the things that we went through to get this book out. I just want to reciprocate and thank you as well for being an inspiration in my life to get this book out. So I just want you to know that your heart is in this book, just as much as my fingers have typed all the words.
Thank you so much. See, I had an ulterior motive I wanted to help.
Well, can we say…
Right, but use your powers for good. So in talking about our student loans, we got started in the conversation previously, thanking you for putting, I’m putting the book together, talking about your journey, but also just scratching the surface and, and thanking my mom for being mean to me that one time and helping me on my path to, being, educated, getting my degrees and not leaning that debt on her. And that may have been her decision. We just didn’t have a, you know, a formal conversation. It happened, you know, and I felt like she jilted me, but it actually worked out for my good and we have, we have listened to the claim in this book, in the book, we have several stories, examples. There are several examples in the book that gives you, life and happens different for every person and how you recover is really the name of the game.
And, and you found a sweet spot with our student loans and you shared everything that we talked about. You all have. If you’ve been listening to us, if you’re new, welcome, you haven’t heard this and you’re getting ready to get a re you know, get the information. Others will get a refresher. We talked about when, the student debt entered, when, when they allowed everyone to get a loan. So they could level the playing field all mean created equal. We talked about that last time, but over the years, you’ve dripped some knowledge to me. And we’ve talked about how we find ourselves in this position. The student loan was once apart, of bankruptcy. And I think you’ve told me that it’s managed. Yeah, yeah! That was way back-
-In the seventies. I believe, early, early seventies, because what’s interesting too is if we were to track and one of the things that I’d be curious to do if I had more time than sense is to run a timeline of when Sally Mae came on the market in 1972. And when the laws started to change, because my money, and if you follow the money, my money would be on the fact that Sally Mae started out as a government sponsored entity and then, became a private company. Now we all know, and some people may not know this because, in the beginning I couldn’t follow when one company closes another one pops up with a different name, Sallie Mae and Navient are the same company, different subsidiaries. And so when you start tracing back the numbers and the entities and who does what, and that’s because Sally Mae broke off part of their book of business and, and made it Navient.
And so everything’s coming out of navy and now when they borrow the student loans, but what’s interesting is yes, back in the seventies, student loans were included in discharge. And then what happened was these student loan, servicers, Sallie Mae, got up to the government in Washington and started crying, oh my God. If people found out that you could get rid of your student loans and bankruptcy, well, then everybody would do it well that, you know, what’s interesting about that concept, Katherine, is that they’ve been praying, washing us into thinking bankruptcy is going to be the worst thing ever for you. And I still have a problem with people not wanting to file bankruptcy here in the year 2021 and so they bring washed everybody into thinking that student bankruptcy was the worst thing ever. And yet they’re crying to Congress that people are going to file bankruptcy on their student loans. It never happened, but they got the laws changed based on what they feared. And so then we don’t have, we never have consumer advocates, obviously you’re on your own as a human being but the lender and the servicers were crying about it. It’s amazing. I believe it.
I sat in, they, they let you sit online to the city, the city council meetings, and I wasn’t planning on it, but I was like, wow, they’re, you know, talk about 20, 20 revitalization. What did I say and is it going to be interested in that I really did not plan to stay tuned in, but I’ve heard the voice of the person that was trying to advocate for the citizen. The 10 minute neighborhood, they called it. Every citizen will be able to have their amenities in their community. Well, they argued back and forth for an hour on how no, no, no, no, no. That’s not what we meant. Not everyone. Well, when they talked about a 30 story building, we can’t have a story building because it would entice, criminals to come to the residential. I’m telling you, I’m not making this up.
But if you make a 20 story building, we could do that. And that could bring money to the community. Oh. And the areas that don’t have businesses, let’s put businesses there, but every time that person on the council spoke up, Hey, you see this map, we should look at the citizens. They’d be like, oh yeah, max. I was like, I’m really watching this and y’all are really doing this. It’s really not about the people. And if people are not there, they get to vote for what they want. And we wonder, well, how did that happen? When did that happen? That board meeting, they had that lasted four hours that you didn’t go to and you didn’t push and make sure that you were playing a Rubik’s cube on TV. There was one of the Councilmen actually believable. Unbelievable! And so we speak up for ourselves.
If you don’t have to absolutely understand everything, but get started. Sometimes you just figured I’m never going to get out of this debt that doesn’t make it wrong. It’s overwhelming. And then you say, well, how did we get here How do we get out of this, you ask questions, but then you might discover that it is wrong. So I’m not saying- it’s right or wrong. I’m just saying, even if you feel like you have nothing, you have so much value and yes, you went to school and only can take your knowledge. But until you’re making $300,000 an hour for telling people that stuff, and you still, all that kind of money is not matching. It’s not adding up. And we need the, we need the advice on how to, to correct it because this follows you. And if you hadn’t looked at your credit report after missing a payment or not calling to defer your payments on a student loan, let me tell you it doesn’t go no-where. Once it’s bad, you want to stay on top of it. So thank you for this book again. Tell us absolutely
My pleasure! I’m going to send you some extra copies so you can give them away to your audience. How’s that grab you? I Love it all. Or I love it. So
I’ll let you be in charge. I’m going to send you some extra copies of the book, because I want to get these in the hands of your audience, and make sure that they’ve got the knowledge that they need. So if you’ve got someone really struggling with student loans, let’s see what we can do to make a difference for them. And then of course, anybody that gets a copy of the book from Catherine’s, podcast, if you would just post up, a review of that or your thoughts or anything like that on social media, that would be great. How to tame the student loan dragon.
We got a few more minutes today and you know what and you need to, you need to scream it from every space that you can, you deserve this and the legal community. This is long overdue. I’m so in love with the attorneys that I get to have on my show, and I don’t fake it, like, you know, I cleared the room. I make sure I’m available in on time. I, who knew years ago, we would still be here talking and, and expressing that attorneys care. And they’re not just here. People should be paid for services. I’ll come clean your house. So if I help who’s at legal advice that I went to make sure that you don’t go to jail, get jammed up. You should pay me, but people aren’t trying to just get rich off of you. They’re trying to educate you, empower you.
And I get it because bankruptcy has been made a bad or bad word. Attorneys have been made a bad word, you know, but they’re not, there are some, and, and everybody has bad apples in everything out here, but the ones that you’ve met on my show and they have shared their information with you. And it’s amazing how you all have a niche. Yours student loans is you. This has been your thing for years. And now having this, this book, giving us the background on it, ironic my husband and I was watching, watching some vampire show. But anyway, the military, two men were talking about they’re going to get better positions in the military because they were educated and I’m just watching TV. And my husband’s like, yeah, that’s real. And I was like I’m talking to Christine about tomorrow. He doesn’t know, but, and then you mentioned the GI bill. So here we are like, where did these things come to position us and separate us so let this be my last question for you for today’s time together. When we looked at the history of education I read in your book that it started out for four ministers, it was something for religious purposes. And then it graduated into being something that the elite had. And then now what it is today, the debt, we have talked a little bit about that as we wrap up today.
Yeah. I mean, it’s interesting too, because also what happens is obviously, and we talked about it last time. Everybody wants better for the next generation and that’s what’s happening is people are willing to put generational amounts of money on the line for an education. That is the truth of what’s happening right now. And, and the harshness of it is the fact that they’re willing to put any amount of money on the line for a future. And I believe that the system is, is ranked against the, students seeking an education today because of the fact that I believe tuition is overpriced. Interest rates are super high on student loans. And because they’ve made it so painful to get it, to get rid of this debt, to the point where you have to go to bankruptcy and continue into litigation, to Sue, to get a right, to discharge the student loans. That’s those are, those are several factors that make it almost the worst type of debt right now that anybody could get themselves into and let them know exactly where they’re going and exactly what the return on the investment’s going to be. Yes. So I think that’s what needs to happen. I think this book is going to help people that haven’t gone to school yet, because it’s going to educate them on getting through the ropes, those that are in student loan debt. It gives them a little bit of hope. And I’m hoping that as the more, this spreads like wildfire, the more we put pressure on the federal government to forgive some of that debt. Yeah. I mean, because
I, oh, okay. I’m gonna let me, okay. I’m gonna spit it out real quick. I think it, I think you’re right. Yes, yes, yes and amen, because we are the citizens. We are the property of the state. We are USO. We are educating ourselves to become better citizens. Then we should not be punished for that. If I decide not to be a bazillionaire, don’t punish me for that. So absolutely tell them how to get in touch with you outside of “This needs to be said’, we must go. I love you so much.
Well, this book, how to tan the student loan dragons is available anywhere books are sold and thank you for the inspiration, Katherine. And if you don’t find it in your local libraries, please ask for it. We’ll get that into your local libraries. I am Christine Kingston. I’m with surf city lawyers here in Huntington Beach, California 7 1 4 5 3 3 9 2 1 0 and I’m on the [email protected] Thanks again, Katherine. Always! You’re welcome until next time. Have a super day. Yeah.